Episode 50: Interview with Ken Lee, LPC, PRT-trained psychotherapist

Minutes/topics

3:49 - how Ken realized he has to learn about PRT (spoiler alert - one of his clients could not focus on working on his trauma before his pain was addressed)

5:23 - Ken’s own pain story (it involved dropping down a cliff in his father’s truck)

7:30 - Ken points out that even structural changes don’t have to be accompanied by pain/pain can be neuroplastic (hint - if you only develop pain after you are told your Xrays look bad, it is highly suggestive neuroplasticity has something to do with it 🙂

10:14 - Ken reveals he was initially skeptical about PRT even as he started the training - and how he had a profound experience during his first somatic tracking and how it ended up changing his life

14:50 - He struggled with tinnitus even after learning PRT - and eventually overcame it - and even had a brief flash of it during the interview (15:08) and it went away as we spoke!

16:10 - how do I even start? …step 1: let’s talk about your story - get to know the patient’s story, make them feel heard, find out about everything - their upbringing, their background, how the pain story evolved, what they think about the pain, their health, their life

19:55 - let the patient know if they should have something evaluated (that could be structural)

21:04 - step 2 - psychoeducation about pain - explain the neuroscience of pain - we have the data about pain that allow us to say that fear plays an extremely important role in pain perception and processing

25:00 small injury can cause whole body reaction if the nervous system is sensitized

25:50: step 3 = hm, I wonder whether this is possible - let’s get curious, provocative testing, start gathering information about their pain - create “evidence sheet”

27:30 cynicism is ok! Let’s bring all the cynicism to the healing table!

29:04 Step 4: somatic tracking - purpose is NOT to get rid of pain in the moment (long term yes), the purpose is to get curious and observe the sensations in the body (including pain), like we watch/observe waves in the ocean…(Martina had immediate calming reaction to Ken’s explanation of what somatic tracking is) 🙂 

31:30 CURIOUSITY IS MINDFULNESS, observing the sensation with curiosity (Ken even compared the fear of pain to fear of rattlesnakes= which is very appropriate btw) 🙂

33:30 don’t use somatic tracking with the expectation of reducing the pain - maintain outcome independence

36:48 What is the brain protecting us from, actually, when creating chronic pain ? and Why?

40:00 “Getting good at feeling good” is part of the healing process!

41:44 “what is the prescription/what do I do next?” - Ken’s response - start taking the pressure off of the need to be perfect. Basically there is no list of things to do…

45:00 Is it possible to change our personality features (that predispose us to central sensitization)? Reframe the concept: We have qualities that helped us in the past…and they are learned, protective behaviors. So we can PICK a different tool from our ammo box.

47:00 let’s talk about self-acceptance and self-forgiveness (loaded topics) - Ken normalizes self-criticism…and suggests getting curious about it, this is part of being human, moderation is the concept here. And sometimes therapy (in addition to PRT) is the answer to allow someone to forgive themselves. 

51:20 How to deal with emotions: Explore emotions with curiosity the same way we explore pain with curiosity - as a response to painful emotions…ALLOW them to be there, make space for them

53:33 Full circle moment in the interview - PRT means Ken can turn TOWARD anything painful in his life, instead of turning AWAY from it. This curiosity leads to different response and eventually self-acceptance.

57:00 how do you know when someone became a believer/had a breakthrough (like Ken did when he had a profound experience during his first ST). 

59:30 “unlearning the pain” is the work WE do, when we face the pain with curiosity

1:00:13 How about if the pain does not move, after years of practice? Find out how they are using the tools - maybe there is no outcome independence, use compassion and safety as tools

1:02:10 Permission to express ourselves fully - anger, frustration, no matter what it is - nervous system relaxes a little then

1:04:00 In the context of past trauma: how does he explain onset of symptoms during a joyful time? Answer: this is what trauma can do. In those situations Somatic tracking may not be the most appropriate tool, concept of resourcing. Importance of trauma therapist/specialist

1:09:00 invitation for people with chronic pain to reach out to a PRT-trained therapist

1:11:00 How you can connect with Ken and What does the PRT-badge verified mean :-)